Empire of AI with Karen Hao

This conversation titled "Empire of AI: Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman’s OpenAI," recorded on October 22, 2025, features award-winning journalist Karen Hao, author of the book Empire of AI and John Borthwick, CEO of Betaworks. The interview provides a critical, behind-the-scenes look at the evolution of OpenAI from a non-profit research lab dedicated to safety into a multi-billion dollar "everything machine" fueled by a pursuit of power, massive capital, and vast data resources.

The video: Empire of AI: Dreams and Nightmares in Sam Altman’s OpenAI - Karen Hao Speaks with John Borthwick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uSnJzPTHHw

Summary and Highlights

The Origin and Mission Shift

John Borthwick introduces Karen Hao as an "insider" who witnessed the development of OpenAI from its early stages. The discussion begins by tracing the company's path from idealism to a pursuit of power. Hao explains that OpenAI was founded on the "dream" of creating Artificial General Intelligence (AGI) that would benefit all of humanity, but it eventually shifted toward a model that consumes vast amounts of information and resources to maintain its dominance.

The "Everything Machine" vs. Specialized Models

A central theme of the interview is the conceptualization of AI. Hao describes two competing visions:

• The Everything Machine: This is the current trajectory of OpenAI, a singular, all-encompassing model that seeks to "supersede human goals" and requires users to "cede our agency" to the creators. Hao argues that this model will "exacerbate the divide between the 1% and the 99%."

• Specialized Models: In contrast, Hao advocates for specialized models. These are designed with specific societal goals in mind such as clean air, clean water, better education, and better healthcare. These models allow society to identify specific "leverage points" where AI can provide actual benefits without requiring the total surrender of human agency.

  
  

The "Data Wall" and Resource Consumption

Hao discusses the physical and digital requirements of building an "Empire." This involves the consumption of "vast information and resources." She touches on the "data wall," where the "everything machine" requires more data than is currently available, leading to a desperate search for new sources of information and the grabbing of lands and water through the construction of data centers. 

The Invisible Infrastructure: Labor and Ethics

Hao "lifts the veil" on the human labor that underpins the AI industry. She highlights that the "dream" of seamless AI often hides a "nightmare" of exploited labor. The breakthrough of ChatGPT and other models rely on vast human efforts that are often excluded from the glossy corporate narrative. Hao notes that the current path of AI development is "startling" because of the human and environmental costs involved in maintaining such a massive technological empire.

Sam Altman’s Dueling Narratives: "Doomers" vs. "Boomers"

Karen Hao provides a detailed look at how CEO Sam Altman has mastered different narratives to navigate the political and regulatory landscapes of different administrations.

• The "Doomer" Narrative: Altman has frequently engaged with the "doomer" argument or the idea that AI poses existential risks to humanity. Hao argues that this is often a strategic narrative used to capture the regulatory imagination. Sounding the alarm on "existential risk" while being a few controlling the development of AI is an irony that Karen identifies. 

  
  

• The "Boomer" Narrative: Conversely, Altman employs a "boomer" argument when speaking to investors and pro-growth administrations. This narrative frames AGI as a technological inevitability that will solve all human problems, from disease to climate change. Hao notes that Altman acts as a "secular prophet," convincing the world that this future is coming and that we must "cede our agency" to the entities building it.

  
  

• Administration Shifts: The interview suggests that these narratives are calibrated for different audiences. In some political contexts, the focus is on the "nightmare" scenarios to ensure centralized control; in others, the focus is on the "dream" of economic abundance to secure the capital and resources needed to keep the "Empire" growing.

  
  

Agency, Power, and the Democratic Deficit

Borthwick and Hao discuss how the pursuit of AGI has led to a "pursuit of power." Hao expresses concern that the "everything machine" conception is anti-democratic. It moves away from "improving society generally speaking" and toward a centralized power structure. Hao suggests that we should instead be looking for specific points where technology can solve human-defined problems. The current "Empire" model risks concentrating wealth and power further, whereas specialized, goal-oriented models could help "collapse that divide."

Conclusion: A Call for Goal-Oriented AI

The interview concludes with a call to reconsider the goals of AI development. Hao suggests that rather than chasing an all-powerful "everything machine," we should prioritize AI that helps achieve tangible societal improvements. The conversation ends with Borthwick thanking the Leon Levy Center for Biography and the Shelby White and Leon Levy Foundation for hosting a talk that moves beyond the hype to examine the "dreams and nightmares" of our current technological era.